‘War is Also Politics’ – Sudan’s Salva Kiir
‘War is Also Politics’ – Sudan’s Salva Kiir
New Vision (Kampala)
INTERVIEW
October 30, 2005
Posted to the web October 31, 2005
Kampala
SUDAN’S First Vice-President, Salva Kiir, is a founder member of the Sudan People’s Liberation Movement. Anouk Batard traced him in Juba recently and asked him about the daunting task of getting southern Sudan onto its feet.
Most people do not know you very well. Who is Salva Kiir?
I do not really believe that many people do not know me because I have been fighting and my name has always been there.
I was born in a small district called Gogrial in the northern Bahr el-Ghazal, around 1951. I am a Dinka by tribe. I did not join the SPLM/A. In 1983, together with late Dr. John Garang, we founded the SPLM/A. We were many but the rest have left. I am now one of the key members still surviving. The rest of my colleagues died in different circumstances.
How many wives and children do you have?
In the Dinka culture you do not count your children. You do not even count your goats and cows because that is not natural. My children stay here in southern Sudan in the bush with me. Of course, I do not know how many they are. One of my daughters, Anok, 17, is at school in some foreign country.
Did you count your wives?
I do not have many wives. In the Dinka tradition, I am supposed to have as many wives as I can. Somebody in a senior position like myself should have more than 30 wives. But this is not the case in our situation. Our fathers got married to many wives. For us now it is difficult to have them.
Currently, I have two wives. I should have had three but my second wife died and that is why I got another one. Otherwise, I should have taken 20 instead of two.
How long had you been the Garang’s deputy?
By default I became the second man of the Movement in September 1992. That was the time Garang’s number two man rebelled. He wanted to overthrow him, but failed and surrendered to the Khartoum government. I was number three then, so by default I became number two. In 1994 we held our first national convention and I was elected first vice-chairman of SPLM/A. From that time I have remained the second man till August 1, 2005 when I became first man in the Movement. That was on August 1, 2005.
What was you relationship like with Garang?
He was a personal friend. We had been together since the 1970s. We met for the first time in 1969. and were together all through. When we were in the Sudanese Armed Forces (SAF) we plotted against the government of Sudan together. We then rebelled and formed the SPLM/A. We ran the SPLM/A smoothly.
In 2004, there developed a misunderstanding but we resolved it in Rumbeck in November that year.
What was the issue?
It was administrative issues organisational problems within the SPLM/SPLA, but we resolved them.
How do you feel stepping into the shoes of a man as popular as Dr. John Garang?
Popularity is something that people work for. Garang did not become popular because on his own. The SPLM/A developed and projected him as their leader. He was given the privilege to talk on behalf of SPLM/A. That was a collective responsibility to build him so that he became popular.
Now that I have taken over after his death, it is the same policy that will help me to forecast whether I will be popular or not. It is the same process. I believe that I will make it.
Are you comfortable with politics?
Politics is not new to me. Nobody was born a politician. The 22 years we spent bush taught us so many things. We were fighting and doing politics. After all war is also politics, except for the bloodshed. Any soldier can be a politician at the same time.
What will be your priorities for the southern Sudan government?
Priorities are so many. You have seen Juba, which is supposed to be the capital of southern Sudan. There is nothing in Juba. We have no electricity, no running water, no roads, no hospitals, no schools. We have nothing at all. We are starting from zero. The challenges are so many that if you want to classify them, all could be number one.
Now that we have signed this peace agreement, we want also to sign another agreement with our brothers, who were in the armed group. Those who had been used by the government of Sudan against the SPLA and are southerners. I am now in dialogue with them so that they join us. We do not want to form the government without them.
We have another challenge: Joseph Kony and the Lord’s Resistance Army (LRA), which is based in southern Sudan. This is another challenge we want to resolve as soon as possible because LRA would also be a problem even if we complete our other arrangements. So we want them to understand that they must go back to Uganda and they put down their guns.
We want to form the Government of Southern Sudan (GOSS). We want everybody, all the political parties in the south to be involved in the government.
We want also to repatriate the internally displaced persons who are in Khartoum and in any part of southern Sudan; and then all the refugees who are in the diaspora, in the region here or in Europe or in America.
The challenges are very many. I cannot really mention any specific priority. Peace and security are paramount, because nothing can progress if there is no peace in southern Sudan.
And what about LRA? Did you discuss this issue with Museveni when you met in Kampala recently.
We agreed that LRA should sit down with the government of Uganda to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict. In case of failure, the Ugandan army would have to be allowed to cross the Red Line in pursuit of Kony. And there would be a joint operation with the Sudanese Army, the SPLA and the UPDF, to operate against Kony.
As the leader of the GOSS, I would prefer that if Kony does not want to negociate, he leaves southern Sudan and goes wherever he wants to stay. He can look for another country, but he cannot be based in southern Sudan.
Have you given him a deadline?
Not at all, because I have not met him. I have been asking people to connect me with him so that I can talk to him personally. I can even help him solve his problems.
Given our experience in negotiations, I can advise him on how to negotiate with the government of Uganda to find a suitable solution.
How was your meeting with Museveni?
I have met him several times before so I was not a stranger to him. It was a cordial meeting.
Are you getting any assistance from the international community?
The international community pledged its commitment to develop the south. That is why it pledged a lot of money in the Oslo conference. But so far nothing has been delivered. Promises without action cannot be taken as a serious commitment.
Which countries are going to be partners of southern Sudan?
We do not know so far who will be our partners. We have opened our doors for all the countries worldwide to come in, those who will want to invest in the south, those who will want to assist in any form and those who will want to maintain a relationship with us. No problem, we are ready for that.
Are you contented with the UN assistance?
Well, the UN has been assisting our displaced people, and I commend them for that. Sometimes it has been difficult for the UN to act according to the plans, because if they do not receive funds from the donors they can’t work effectively.
What do you have to say about the Demobilisation, Disarmament and Reintegration (DDR)?
The DDR is about to start. We are in the process of putting our armies together. First, 12,000 soldiers would be integrated in the Joined Integrated Unit (JIU) with the 12,000 from the SAF. Secondly, there is the SPLA proper, that will remain alone as a separate army. We are sorting them out.
Then there are the police services, the correctional services, the wildlife, the civil depatments. I believe the DDR will be completed as planned.
Who do you consider for disarmament?
Anybody can be disarmed. There are people who are advanced in age. They would no longer be useful to the army. There are people who were wounded during the war and cannot remain in the army. There are people who voluntarily want to leave the army. I personally would volunteer to go and rest.
Plus the fact that we are going to downsize the SAF and our army. When we downsize, it does not mean we will only demobilise those who are of old age or disabled. We will have to make a clear cut. If I want my army to be 20,000-strong and I have 100,000 that means I will have to disarm and demobilise 80,000 and remain with 20,000.
What about the civilians who might have fought?
Civilians are civilians and anybody who might have participated in the war one way or another must remain a civilian. If that civilian is armed, he has to be disarmed because leaving arms in the hand of civilians will create insecurity in the country.
Our army was composed of peasants, people who are purely civilians but who were fighting for a cause. This is why you cannot know the size of our army and this is why we were able to resist the SAF. So these civilians also have to be disarmed.
What does “peace” mean to you?
If the war ended and peace comes, peace means development, prosperity for the people, improving the standard of living for the citizens of the country so that they grip the fruits of their struggle.
What is your own vision for southern Sudan?
Southern Sudan will move towards prosperity. As we are implementing the CPA, we will embark on development projects as well as the delivery of services to the people of southern Sudan.
Of course, within six years you cannot do so many things to change the situation in southern Sudan, but we are hopeful that we will do something in order to bring about a peace dividend so that people really believe that they have something in their hand.