INTERVIEW: Sudan FM says his role should reflect views of NCP & SPLM

September 8, 2008 (KHARTOUM) – The Sudanese foreign minister Deng Alor dismissed criticisms that he is the dissenting voice within the government of National Unity (GONU).

Alor said that due to the nature of the coalition government he should reflect the views of the dominant ruling National Congress Party (NCP) and the Sudan People Liberation Movement (SPLM).

In the second part of his interview with Al-Sahafa newspaper Alor appeared acknowledged the failure to normalize ties with Washington and cited the Darfur crisis and the time constraint due to the US presidential elections.

He also stressed the need to hold the elections on time to speed up the democratic transformation in the country that will enable free and open dialogue to deal with the Sudan’s problems.

The SPLM official also denied that any decision has been made on having Salva Kiir run for the presidential elections.

Below is the text of the second part of the interview

– What is the update on the Sudanese-American dialogue to normalize relations?

Alor: When I assumed office in the Foreign Ministry our goal was to reform the Sudanese-American relations. This was the goal for all of us in Foreign Affairs ministry, the Presidency and the Government of National Unity (GONU) in general. We started the dialogue with the Americans in a good fashion but unfortunately it did not progress because there is still the fundamental issue of Darfur which has had three aspects; a political solution to political crisis, engaging in a genuine dialogue with the rebels. The second aspect is the tension with Chad and the need for both sides to end arguments and mutual accusations of harboring opposition in both countries and proceeding immediately to restoring diplomatic ties.

The third aspect was the hybrid force and there were accusations for the government that are dealing in transparency with the obligations that they have undertaken and that they are putting obstacles in the way of the deployment for these forces and objecting to certain nationalities.

The other issue raised by the US relates to the implementation of the Comprehensive Peace Agreement (CPA), especially the issue of Abyei. These issues did not allow the dialogue between the two countries to move forward until we ended up have losing the time factor since the US elections got closer and the U.S. administration is preoccupied with the transition arrangements and now there is nothing we can do but to maintain relations at this level until there is a new president next November who will swear oath in January of the new year then we will wait and see who are newcomers to the White House. Are they Republicans or Democrats, and what is their plan in terms of their relations with Sudan?

– There are also elections supposed to be held in Sudan which may create a new reality?

Alor: Yes, there are elections ahead. But in my opinion we can do something with the new administration to improve relations with Washington.

– There are also developments expected to occur that may lead to a confrontation between Khartoum and the international community. Would this result in the postponement of the 2009 elections?

Alor: In my opinion the elections must be held for three reasons. The first reason is that elections date is set by the constitution and there is agreement on conducting it. The second reason is the fact that elections are an instrument of democratic transformation in order to entrench the principle of peaceful transfer of power. The third reason is that the problems of Sudan will be resolved only in a democratic system. The government that exists now is neither an authoritarian one neither is it a democracy. This is a hybrid government which was the outcome of compromises and adjustments in the peace agreement to pave the road to democratization.

After the elections we will have an government elected by the people that can manage a dialogue on various issues of the country’s democratically to reach solutions that are acceptable to all people. The usage of gun power has failed and only gave us poverty, disease and problems that we are in now.

Neither the armed movements in Southern Sudan for a period of 40 years had achieved their objectives nor have the central governments nor the armed movements in Darfur achieved theirs. So ultimately there is no solution except through negotiation and dialogue. A dialogue in a democratic system is the best thing that will inevitably lead to solutions, because it would enhance free dialogue without censoring like it is happening now.

I personally made statements condemning the incidents at the Kalma camp that was blocked by the security services. I told the brothers in the National Congress Party (NCP) about this and told them that I cannot be part of a government censoring what I say when I am the Minister for Foreign Affairs. I cannot accept such behavior and in order for these things not to occur again we better have a democratic system.

– Is there a possibility to resolve the crisis between the government and the international community under the table?

Alor: There are solutions on the table.

– But it appears that the solutions on the table are not acceptable by the NCP. I have learned that there are officials carrying suitcases full of money and travelling worldwide in search of solutions?

Alor: (Laughing) Do you have proof of what you are saying? As I previously stated that any tendency for that is the nothing more than public relations that will not solve the problem. This technique used may help in dealing with the African Union (AU), the Arab League (AL) and Organization of Islamic Conference (OIC) but it will certainly not help in dealing with the United Nations and the Security Council or the European Union (EU).

I have not lost hope yet that we can solve the crisis here between now and mid-October before the issuance of arrest warrant for the President after which we can contain the crisis later but this requires from us that we do the right thing. If we agree on that then we can resolve this today before tomorrow to make a real breakthrough in this crisis. The c is very clear but needs courageous decisions.

– Why are not facing the NCP with this within the committee for the management of the crisis?

Alor: The discussions within the committee are marked by a high degree of transparency and clarity. Each party in the committee expresses his vision in utmost transparency and if the committee meets again soon I’m hopeful that there will be a positive outcome supporting the line of dealing with the ICC. This is my hope.
– Are there are factions within the NCP convinced with the point of view calling for dealing with the ICC?

Alor: There are considerable numbers supporting it but this line did not find sufficient support within the NCP to influence its public position.

– We have learned that one of the legal options for the government is to request an advisory opinion from the International Court of Justice (ICJ) on the legality of the resolution by the UNSC referring Darfur case to the ICC. Is this the direction of the committee?

Alor: The appeal was not political challenge but a legal and it requires the cooperation first with the ICC. This what the ICC prosecutor said; that Sudan must challenge the jurisdiction in court which is what we in the SPLM said. This talk should not be made in the media or in the pulpits of regional organizations but engagement with the ICC within its space provides us with a considerable time to find solutions to the Darfur crisis because it delays the issuance of arrest warrant from the judges.

– What other options is the NCP pursuing after insisting on ignoring the ICC given the pressure by the international community and the lack of time?

Alor: In my opinion they don’t have any options, because the next best option is for an arrest warrant to be issued for the president. Do they want this option? If they do then they need to declare this openly. If the NCP was keen on the safety of the president and its chief then they must accept the principle of cooperation with the ICC.

– What happened regarding the restoration of diplomatic relations with Chad as we learned that this was on the agenda of the visiting French delegation to Khartoum?

Alor: Two weeks ago I met with our ambassador in Chad, and asked him to prepare himself to return to N’Djamena and to re-open the embassy to mark the resumption of relations with Chad and we began the implementation of this practice.

There are no problems in terms of diplomatic representation, but what is left is restoring political relations and this requires them to enter into a dialogue to remove the reasons for disagreement and misunderstanding.

I met with President Deby in Paris last July and he handed me an invitation for Vice president Salva Kiir to visit N’djamena and Kiir accepted it. Deby told me that after he meets Kiir he will visit Juba afterwards.

I told him why not visit Juba via Khartoum. He replied that he would visit Khartoum through Juba at this time and laughed loudly. He felt puzzled when he was talking about the reasons that that got him into a dispute with Sudan, particularly with President al-Bashir because according to what he told me that they have a personal relationship, and that he [Al-Bashir] is the closest official on the African continent to him. This made me feel that there is a seriousness on his part to reach an understanding on the reasons for the recent disagreements, and we on our end are seriousness in restoring relations with Chad to the previous level because we believe that we cannot reach a solution in Darfur without having relations with Chad.

– When will Kiir visit N’Djamena?

Alor: Probably in October

– If Deby is serious in restoring relations why did he not reopen his embassy in Khartoum?

Alor: We must do our end of the deal to test his seriousness. Perhaps if we opened our embassy in N’Djamena this will speed up his decision to open the embassy in Khartoum. We have made the political decision to restore relations with Chad.

– You came as a Foreign Minister after considerable debate within the SPLM on the performance of former Minister Dr Lam Akol, what is the difference in performance you and your predecessor?

Alor: Assessment of the difference is up to others to determine, but the minister who preceded me, Dr. Lam Akol who is also a leading figure in the SPLM and performed his duties in the ministry. He interpreted the role of the foreign ministry as dealing directly with the head of the state and the minister should therefore not deviate from the president’s guidelines given by virtue of that.

I have a different vision however that recognizes that the foreign ministry maintains direct relationship with the president but in the presence of coalition government like now if we had no disagreement at the presidency on pivotal issues that surely will affect the work of the minister and if the minister adopts one line this will be negligence on his part.

The foreign minister must take into account the viewpoint of both partners. For example if the president and his Vice President disagree on a specific issue then I as the foreign minister must reflect this difference. I cannot broadcast the position of the president, which is often the opinion of his party, as an opinion of the GONU and vice versa I cannot adopt the view of the First Vice president as the GONU point of view. Either you find middle ground and try to diplomatically express yourself despite the fact that this method is detrimental to diplomatic work because this will reflect negatively on our missions abroad because they will be in confusion due to lack of clarity on vision in Khartoum.

– Are your partners convinced with your pint of view?

Alor: I am always blamed by our brothers in the NCP because I do not reflect their views on foreign policy. I was clear with them that I will only reflect your point of view when it conforms to that of the GONU and not the view of one party.

– There is a great deal of controversy in the press these days about the nomination of the Kiir for the presidential elections. What is the position of the SPLM specifically on this issue?

Alor: We should be very accurate particularly on our part at the SPLM. I did not attend the last meeting of the political bureau but the decision issued by the meeting was that the SPLM would run the elections at all levels, and this means we did not rule out running in the presidential elections but we did not identify the person yet.

– I was present for the meeting and Yasser Arman, announced the news of the SPLM contesting at the presidential elections. When he was asked about the SPLM nominee he said Salva Kiir?

Alor: Well you did not ask him for the decisions of the meeting that states that the SPLM is running for elections at all levels and everything else is personal interpretation. The nomination of Kiir will have a big impact on the South. If Kiir lost the presidential election who will fill the office of the President of the Government of South Sudan (GoSS)? Those are things that must be resolved before determining a person who will run in the presidential elections. I stress that there is no decisions nominating Kiir personally for the presidential elections, but there is the principle of having the SPLM present different nominees at all levels of elections.

– Don’t you think that controversy over this issue only provides proof that there are different factions struggling within the SPLM?

Alor: Absolutely not. This is proof of the vibrant democracy and within the SPLM there are many people want Kiir to run for elections while others don’t. Perhaps those who confirmed that the candidate for the SPLM is Kiir was a reflection of their personal desire. Kiir himself must have a view on the acceptance or rejection of the candidacy.

– Is there any communication between the NCP and the SPLM on its decision to freeze participation in the regional governments of Darfur?

Alor: As of now no meeting took place between the First Vice president with the president to discuss with him the repercussions of the Kalma camp events. The Darfurians in the SPLM have decided that they will not return to the government until there a clear roadmap to resolve the crisis in the region. This is their position and was endorsed by the SPLM. But the question also should be directed to the NCP regarding their Darfuri members who resigned. Even though the NCP refused to accept their resignation they are still locking themselves up in their own homes.

– What are the other issues expected to be discussed by the First Vice president in his meeting with the president?

Alor: Certainly the ICC crisis because we have a real concern on how to deal with the court and its consequences, unless the NCP has magic wand that we are unaware of or traditional chieftains holding rosary. If it is the same position then we are concerned about this and we want to move quickly to contain the crisis.

(ST)